tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post724213245678539924..comments2023-10-06T07:52:02.147-05:00Comments on Justice Roars: Glambeaux: Taking Cultural Appropriation Too Far, by Gianna ChachereTracie L. Washingtonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/09969453234056149081noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-82131485140734793872014-03-13T21:09:39.386-05:002014-03-13T21:09:39.386-05:00"Love is a many-splendored thing"!"Love is a many-splendored thing"!Stevenhttp://whatssofunky.com/funkynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-55768071277019040162014-02-28T06:46:55.789-06:002014-02-28T06:46:55.789-06:00The glambeaux seem to be about gender equality and...The glambeaux seem to be about gender equality and empowerment. Just like Muses. That is a good thing. They don't detract from the traditional flambeaux. They call attention to the differences by their existance. If they had never marched...we would not be having this discussion. Perhaps the next question to ask is..why have women of any color not been allowed to be flambeaux until this group decided it was time women could hold the fire that lights the parades ? Has no one ever heard of Hestia? Personally ...I have a hard time with the propane flambeaux. And in terms of history ..1981 saw the end of the law that made women "chattel" or property of their husbands. So....Some "traditions" need to change. But mainly...the city is sinking....the sea levels are rising... and we may not have a new Orleans to celebrate Mardi gras.. love it all while you can. I'm a pest ship descendent.indentured servent...Baker...seventh generation king cake baby. As far as I can go back... it is always important to remember...that Mardi gras is a Catholic celebration of meat eating and merriment before lent. That has been lost by the commodification of culture. And the commercialization and formalization of a Catholic holiday by non catholics. But that is another story.... Most of all.. thank you for starting the discussion. - peace to you all this carnival seasonAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-44147263194487933262014-02-27T17:03:57.724-06:002014-02-27T17:03:57.724-06:00Did anyone ever answer the question, "How man...Did anyone ever answer the question, "How many African American or women of color are in this group?"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-28760402551102267132014-02-27T13:39:19.612-06:002014-02-27T13:39:19.612-06:00I'm a native of New Orleans and a traditionali...I'm a native of New Orleans and a traditionalist. I don't like things to change. But they do change and I've come to accept it (wisdom with age). I had the same "appropriation of culture" thoughts when I first read about the Glambeaux. In the past nine years I am amazed to see and hear what people think is "traditional" New Orleans. I cringe when I see people wearing costumes to parades - you are only supposed to mask on Mardi Gras! And who decided king cakes should be sold with the baby outside of the cake? Really, you can't feel a plastic baby in your mouth without swallowing it? Anyway, those traditions are not that important in the greater scheme of things. I think we have to learn to accept the that our traditions are being altered by the new New Orleanians. But we also need to continue to discuss and explore our culture. So thanks for bringing this out for discussion.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-25933854952493542312014-02-27T10:55:39.130-06:002014-02-27T10:55:39.130-06:00As a fellow 10th generation New Orleanian (one ca...As a fellow 10th generation New Orleanian (one came with Bienville and married the daughter of a deported salt smuggler), I think your commentary reeks of been-here-longer-than-thou bullschmidt. You don't own these traditions - we all do - and these traditions have always morphed, evolved, devolved, etc to reflect the times. Hello? King Cake. Do I need to say more? Today's stuffed king cake bears no resemblance whatsoever to a traditional Gateau du Roi, and yet the world keeps spinning.<br />If you're that concerned with honoring traditions, do what I do, which is what my grandmother did - raise up those who come after you to love and understand NOLA. Back to the king cake example - all of my descendants are fully aware that they will burn in hell if they eat King Cake after Ash Wednesday or before Epiphany. And worse, they'll look like tourists. Same thing with beads. You will never catch any offspring of mine wearing Mardi Gras beads out of season. Because they'll be mistaken for tourists and mugged, obviously. Now - do we run around telling people not to eat king cake or wear beads in July because they'll end up burning in hell after they've been mugged? No. No we do not. Because we're fucking hospitable New Orleanians. We just quietly raise a disapproving eyebrow, snicker a little and personally abstain from those gauche cultural missteps.<br />There are many things I could raise my fists and rail against in this changing cultural landscape, but I find it far more effective to impart the traditions, knowledge and love on an individual level - to curse those that come behind me the way my grandmother cursed me - to instill in another human being that rabid, intransigent devotion to this ever-sinking sliver, and hope for the best. <br /><br />Ashley BoudreauxAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-8088507612629359122014-02-26T20:38:36.728-06:002014-02-26T20:38:36.728-06:00Ase'Ase' Just Becausehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09267041259299671655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-8460233709199149362014-02-26T18:47:33.491-06:002014-02-26T18:47:33.491-06:00According to CNN the first parade rolled in New Or...According to CNN the first parade rolled in New Orleans in 1837.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-43107932496005748512014-02-26T15:01:41.182-06:002014-02-26T15:01:41.182-06:00I too have lived in other communities far more rig...I too have lived in other communities far more rigid then New Orleans.<br /><br />Being "open-minded" has lead the way for a lot of garbage to come in often to the detriment of "the natives". Your remarks borders closely to arrogance, unfortunately.<br /><br /> Please note that I do feel, somewhat that the trying new things enhances the world around but you do not plop the elephant in the room without the considerations of the owner's home!<br /><br />This city has gone throw so much in nearly 9 years including carpetbaggers who has no regard other then lining their pockets that the sometimes hypersensitivity is understandable.<br /><br />Who are you to dictate the lives & traditions of others because what? You said so? The questions are merely rhetorical.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-9277233068157985632014-02-26T14:49:37.235-06:002014-02-26T14:49:37.235-06:00Thank you! In the midst of a clever retort to the ...Thank you! In the midst of a clever retort to the writer, I appreciate you, the Editor, clarification.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-70502071217235034172014-02-26T14:47:19.979-06:002014-02-26T14:47:19.979-06:00Well said! " the road to destruction is paved...Well said! " the road to destruction is paved with good intentions".Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-49742393763932597492014-02-26T14:44:16.273-06:002014-02-26T14:44:16.273-06:00Agreed in every sense.Agreed in every sense.Jacquelyn Hughes Mooney, artisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04157770388953500175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-8199394580976188902014-02-26T14:42:41.300-06:002014-02-26T14:42:41.300-06:00Why is research needed? You've proving her po...Why is research needed? You've proving her point! Everything doesn't have to be research & discussed to death! In the meantime running roughshod over culture that is the very thing why people want to be here continues.<br /><br />It is like Pat Boone "covering" Little Richard! Please"Jacquelyn Hughes Mooney, artisthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04157770388953500175noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-62732250192263873072014-02-26T11:54:53.708-06:002014-02-26T11:54:53.708-06:00In 1956, the NAACP threatened to ask Zulu to disco...In 1956, the NAACP threatened to ask Zulu to discontinue its parade because it "degrades and ridicules the Negro race." Calling for the abolition of flambeaux carriers seems to me to be analogous to that misguided effort. I applaud the writer for starting this discussion, but in this case I think the outrage is misplaced. A more appropriate response might be simply to roll your eyes and laugh in the same way I roll my eyes and laugh at Uptown society pretending to be royalty. Mardi Gras ultimately belongs to the people.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-91414678895887986442014-02-26T11:28:31.208-06:002014-02-26T11:28:31.208-06:00Krewe riders were all male, & all white, once ...Krewe riders were all male, & all white, once upon a time.<br />I dig this idea. Go Glambeaux!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-10772652456275743482014-02-26T11:17:40.794-06:002014-02-26T11:17:40.794-06:00You've got to be less one-sided than this. Ver...You've got to be less one-sided than this. Very little research. Zero, it seems, into the Glambeaux themselves. I'm not defending them, but please don't fall into the trap of defending the "defenseless" -- its just as insulting as the claims your levying against these Glambeaux. Furthermore, if you'd like to actually reach people (and change some minds) and not just reinforce previously held beliefs, please try to have some semblance of impartiality. <br /><br />Appropriation is bad because it implies a disrespect/theft of the history or traditions involved. Then, I really think you have to actually discuss what they're doing. What irony are they trying to point out? Are they perhaps more complex than you're understanding? <br /><br />Trust me, my beliefs are fully equipped to align with what you're saying (and they mostly do), but for the purposes of "justice," please put in a little more effort to take this out of your corner and bring the rhetoric to a place that might actually convince someone who's not yet convinced.Eddie Saidnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-75468360218065969752014-02-26T08:40:26.975-06:002014-02-26T08:40:26.975-06:00Another point worthy of deeper reflection is the w...Another point worthy of deeper reflection is the writer's insistence that the flambeaux tradition "should be abolished as a demeaning and sad part of American history." With a more thorough understanding of history herself she would realize there are numerous traditions and monuments throughout the world (the Auschwitz memorial in Poland is one) that exist as stark reminders of the injustices wrought on fellow human being in the hope they will not be repeated. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-43039453169601645022014-02-26T07:51:28.149-06:002014-02-26T07:51:28.149-06:00Proud New Orleanian:
One small historical error -...Proud New Orleanian:<br /><br />One small historical error - slavery ended with the Emancipation Proclamation in 1862. The first Mardi Gras parade did not occur until 1892. The original flambeau might have been former slaves, but they could not have been slaves. <br /><br />Just like everything else we do in New Orleans or Louisiana that you can only experience here, this is another example of the "outside" world trying to change our culture. NO ONE FORCES ANYONE TO DO ANYTHING HE OR SHE DOESN'T WANT TO DO.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-67722886121274219492014-02-25T20:48:18.694-06:002014-02-25T20:48:18.694-06:00Oh my dears...choose your battles. This is a foot...Oh my dears...choose your battles. This is a footnote and you give these ladies more head space than they deserveAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-12519392152571143072014-02-25T20:41:07.802-06:002014-02-25T20:41:07.802-06:00Well said Dani. I've lived in several cities w...Well said Dani. I've lived in several cities with deep traditions but never anywhere as closed minded as New Orleans. I get it, you have traditions that date back generations. Many of them based in racism, segregation and slavery. The fact that the "natives" are so dead set on keeping them visible further agitates the population and racial relations. These women are raising money for charity and showing the Mardi Gras spirit through their actions. I'm certain there are many other people that have moved here from other places that find many of the New Orleans traditions offensive and based in an era that most of us would like to forget our country ever had. <br /><br />I support any group that tries to help others through their efforts and will support Glambeaux on Thursday.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-84128766128372868542014-02-25T19:47:04.178-06:002014-02-25T19:47:04.178-06:00How many African American or women of color are in...How many African American or women of color are in your group? Just Becausehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09267041259299671655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-81565156568407253142014-02-25T19:40:22.349-06:002014-02-25T19:40:22.349-06:00Let's continue to water down history in this &...Let's continue to water down history in this "post racial" society. Great article and jumping off point for discussion at ALL levels. FYI... donations to a feminist organization does NOT justify the means. If you want to " educate the community... support its youth. Given the money to Tamborine and Fans!!! Wait you Do know who they are right??? I mean you did study the history beyond how can we be in a parade right??? Just Becausehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09267041259299671655noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-49548436922654172442014-02-25T18:55:31.806-06:002014-02-25T18:55:31.806-06:00
The Glambeaux would like to let the community k...<br /><br /><br />The Glambeaux would like to let the community know about our deep respect for the flambeaux tradition and our awareness of its cultural and historical implications. It is because of this respect that we have made some purposeful choices from the beginning to honor the traditional flambeaux. <br /><br /> The Glambeaux are only marching in one parade, and Muses is still retaining the traditional male flambeaux in the parade as well. Muses has also chosen to place the traditional flambeaux ahead of us in the parade line-up because we understand that they came first and we want to honor that. <br /><br /> Our group has no wish to replace the traditional flambeaux. Any social commentary that we intend to make is solely about feminism and gender equality. We want to present a statement that women are just as capable of carrying the weight and lasting the whole route as the men are, and we chose to walk with Muses because we wanted to add another all-female element to an all-female parade. <br /><br /> Our focus on female empowerment is the reason why, from the very beginning, it has been our intent to use our group as a platform to support the group Women with a Vision. Created by and for women of color, WWAV is a non-profit run by a group of amazing women who put in long hours with little funding to address social injustice against marginalized women in New Orleans. All of the tips that we receive on the parade route are going directly to WWAV. In addition, two of the Glambeaux have organized a donation program through the restaurants Tivoli and Lee and The Lucky Rooster to give one dollar from the sale of every “Glambeaux Punch” to Women with a Vision as well.<br /><br /> The women in my group have not taken on this job lightly. We have been training for this march for almost eight weeks, because we do understand that it’s a responsibility as well as a privilege. We have been introduced as a group to four traditional flambeaux carriers who spent some time teaching us some of their signature moves and giving us safety tips. At the end of our meeting we applauded these men and they applauded us back. The spirit of the meeting was one of mutual admiration, respect, and collaboration. <br /><br /> The Glambeaux group is made up of women who honor and cherish the cultural heritage and legacy of New Orleans and do not wish to appear irreverent or disrespectful in any way.<br /><br /> Happy Carnival, and so much love,<br /><br /> Dani Johnson<br /> Founder of the Glambeaux<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-8970079825535236172014-02-25T17:07:35.284-06:002014-02-25T17:07:35.284-06:00You raise some extremely important points here. Bu...You raise some extremely important points here. But an important opportunity for dialogue and exchange is missed because the article is full of assumptions that aren't backed up by research:<br /><br />1. Be careful when claiming to speak for those who are systematically oppressed. Did you actually speak with any of the male Flambeaux who work the parades? Did you ask the Flambeaux in the Muses parade why they helped to train the Glambeaux? Did you know that they did that? Or would you just dismiss them as inadvertently advancing their own oppression?<br /><br />2. You are absolutely correct that cultural traditions should not be merely treated as costumes, and that "There should be some element of mutual understanding, equality, and respect for it to be a true cultural exchange – otherwise it is just taking." Did you speak with any of the members of the bone gangs to find out if there was any mutual understanding or cultural exchange taking place? Did you find out if they are just donning costumes?<br /><br />3. The journalist impeding the progress of the performer was used as an example to back your point. You could have expanded on this and referenced the recent controversy over Mardi Gras Indians' rights to their own images, including receiving payment for same-- but instead, the activity of the journalist appears to be conflated with the experience of parade performers engaging in cultural appropriation. <br /><br />4. Some of the groups you are criticizing are feminist groups looking to allow female participation in old carnival traditions. I'd love to see some commentary on how the national feminist movement has often implicated itself in advancing white privilege, and how that might intersect with local feminist movements. <br /><br />5. Musicians from other cities are asking you important questions about why there is no sense of outrage in response to these activities. Your attitude is one of dismissal, as if New Orleans is simply a sad state of affairs and has no sense of self-governance. But it's actually a very important question. New Orleans has such a complicated, unique history having to do with the cultural exchange of many populations, many of them marginalized and oppressed. Carnival and Mardi Gras itself is so deeply rooted in satirical humor, the use of mimicry as an artistic device, and yes, controversial boundary-crossing. Since people ask you this question, why not do more in-depth research on the matter? Of course, you will have to get into traditional uses of mimicry as a form of "paying respect" to ancestors, which in the arts include those who have influenced your work. You'll see a lot of that in film, for example.<br /><br />5. You say that the "the traditions that originated and existed in the African-American community are suddenly receiving praise and attention - but not for its originators." Can you give us examples backing up this statement? How does the evolution of new groups replace the activities of old ones, especially if some of them work to give credit where it is due?<br /><br />6. "This occurs at a time when the city continues to enforce restrictions on cultural activity in African American communities while neglecting to bring social and economic progress to all the city’s citizens." Carnival is performed by social aid and pleasure groups, many of which are working against such restrictions. For me this brings up the question of how the popularization/ adaptation of certain traditions will affect the fight against over-regulations and discriminatory restrictions. This, too, is an important question.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-53704803007060719022014-02-25T15:32:21.879-06:002014-02-25T15:32:21.879-06:00"This tendency of the privileged to focus on ..."This tendency of the privileged to focus on their intentions rather than on the consequences of their actions on those whom they inadvertently marginalize and oppress is yet another way in which privilege reinforces itself..." I agree with this point, but feel it would carry much greater weight in this context had the author actually explored what those intentions are/were rather than making an uninformed, disparaging blanket criticism of all those involved. As another commenter pointed out, many of these appropriators are welcomed by the indigenous culture bearers. This does not necessarily make it right, but needs to be part of the conversation. Ironically, this situation is not nearly as black and white as the author suggests.STevenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-464319063590321799.post-58122859044463640482014-02-25T15:01:31.761-06:002014-02-25T15:01:31.761-06:00Photo is licensed under the Creative Commons Attri...Photo is licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution 2.0 Generic license, and is linked to original at bottom of this post.Editor:noreply@blogger.com